tv The Dylan Ratigan Show MSNBC June 27, 2011 4:00pm-5:00pm EDT
has a hard time passing a microphone. i would anticipate he will, but, you know, he hasn't had bad news like this to reacted to yet. he has yet to pass up mish phones after court. >> looks like she making his way there. >> yes. there's a large number of media and cameras. here he is. rod blagojevich. >> well, among the many lessons i've learned from this whole experience is to try to speak a little bit less so i'm going to keep my remarks kind of short. patty and i are obviously very disappointed. the outcome i frankly am stunned. there's not much left to say, other than we want to get loam to our little girls and talk to them and explain things to them and then try to sort things out. and -- i'm sure we'll be seeing you guys again. >> governor, did you get a fair trial? >> what do you -- [ inaudible ]. >> that former illinois governor
rod blagojevich making live comments immediately following news that he has been found guilty on 17 of 20 counts of corruption effectively. this associated with accusations that governor blagojevich inappropriately, shall we say, exploited his role as the governor in order to try to advance his own political agenda. the item that was in question was the opportunity to fill a senate seat that is, or was, vacated by the now president barack obama. nick bogert, nbc news reporter in chicago on the beat. hi, nick. >> reporter: hi. hi, dylan. >> nick, can you tell us what happens next? >> caller: we, the judge set another hearing for 35 days from now, a status hearing. not probably he will actually do sentencing at that point.
he also imposed travel restrictions on rod blagojevich said he could not leave the northern district of illinois without special permission. prosecutors also asked blagojevich's home be placed, security for him returning to court. i don't believe that that was resolved, from what i could make out. i gather patti blagojevich was visibly upset by the idea her home might be put up as collateral for her husband's return. there's no question that this verdict will be appealed throughout the case the defense lawyers had complained very frankly that they thought the judge, james, had a bias against their client. taken away the presumption of innocence for rod blagojevich. they've made no secret of the fact they would appeal any guilty verdicts here. >> if you were to look at his recourse, is there an appeal recourse? obviously, the concern, an extended jail term. saying he could face 350 years. the analysts around here that are looking at this are saying more than likely he faces seven to ten years in actual jail. do you have any insight what he
might be able to do in terms of legal maneuvers between here and actually being incarcerated? >> caller: certainly at the sentencing hearing real bring in lots of people to speak to some of the good works that he's done. his friends. friends and family will plead on his behalf for leniency from jud judge. the judge can depart upwards of it, if he's convinced to do so, and can depart lower. it's up to the judge and it is possible as a message to illinois politicians, crooked illinois politician, we've had a few over the last several yes, he will depart upwards. at this point, seven to ten range is what i hear also as a possible range. >> the time frame between sentencing? any opportunity for an appeal between here and there that could then avert that sentencing. >> reporter: no. generally the appeal would be applied for after the sentencing comes down.
appeals courts are not noted for their speed, let's say. this is something i think would be applied for in the next couple of month, and a long time off being heard, i think. >> and away from the leaguese. we know it's 17 to 20 counts. a lot of the counts go corruption, wire fraud, this sort of thing. in non-legal terms, can you give us some sense of what it is he has been found guilty of that he's going to go to jail for? >> reporter: yeah. the wire frauds, phone calls essentially. on the line with somebody in another state, and he was conspireing to make certain things happen. getting a private benefit for a public action. for instance, in the senate seat he would appoint somebody that the obama white house liked and hoped to get a u.s. ambassadorship or perhaps be appointed secretary of health and human services in return. that kind of thing. that's a wire fraud. then there were extortion conspiracies, again, conspiring with people to extort benefits poor himself. there were four attempted extortions. one count of bribery and two counts of bribery conspiracy.
again, trying to get people to give him campaign cash in exchange for various actions as governor nap sort of thing that he's gone down on and again we're talking about three of the schemes out of the five alleged schemes that prosecutors had brauts to t brought to the jury. on great majority of the counts and a majority of the schemes the jurors said we don't believe that the governor's explanation, that he was just talking, all talk and hadn't acted and therefore wasn't guilty, that in fact his conversations constituted crimes. >> understood. that's for the reporting. helping all of us, get up the learning curve. you heard, the former governor leaving the courthouse openly booed by the crowds outside of the court after being convict and 17 of 20 counts. wire fraud, extortion, corruption. i want to bring in our monday mega panel. msnbc political analyst, jonathan alter. reuters editor at large kristen and sam, host of the majority
report. a pleasure to see you three. get to the deficit in a second. doing other business. but rob blagojevich, this happened to us. so we will discuss it. >> i don't know how. >> yes. we have thought chicago politics are confirm. can we not? >> the best way to understand this is think about what happens in washington every day. there are campaign contributions given to members of congress who then go out and vote the way the contributor wants. >> that's basically the problem with america right now. yes. >> looks like bribery. at the state level, pay to play. state contract, make a contribution. what blagojevich did wrong he didn't realize that you can't be an explicit quid pro quo. >> can't say you're doing t. right. you have to have a touch of subtlety about this. leave things unspoken. everybody knows that it's an exchange, pay for play. >> i want to pick up right there. >> you can't actually say it the way he did on these phone calls or you're going to go to jail i.
want to pick up there. rod blagojevich said in the past in an interview, sat with him and said, listen, how much is the difference do you think, governor, between what you do and what everybody else does? and by his characterization, granted he has obvious biases that are going to express themselves here, but by his view,nd they say snag you'd never want them to say about the neighbors because you're not supposed to say that about the neighbor? rod blagojevich is that 4-year-old who did not realize you're not supposed to just do this.
>> absolutely. how about, honey, you look fat today. >> he's a 4-year-old boy. >> yeah. i think jonathan's right. ambassadorships all the more so. right? who thinks ambassadorships are granted on pure merit and on the future ambassador's knowledge of the country that the ambassador is being sent to? but i do think that part of the reason there has been such intense interest in this, it is makes us mad. people don't want politics to be run this way. people don't like the notion of politics run pay to play. people don't want appointments to cabinet to be on the basis of political favors. blagojevich for sure, his main crime is being a bozo and spelling these things out on telephones that could be tapped. >> but isn't this a -- isn't, sam, the bigger issue with america, though, is we know that we have a bankrupt systems, across the board, and decision-making, in energy, in education, in health care, banks, et cetera.
we know the reason we have bankrupt decision-making is because of the type of behavior or interpretations rod blagojevich was just found guilty of and all we're stuck with is rod blagohe,%! when we want the rest of them. >> that's my only regret. makes it look like rod blagojevich is doing something different, because he's going to jail as opposed to -- exactly. finally we've taken care of the whole pay to play system in this country, and that's sort of the depressing thing about it. frankly i don't care one way or another. if the guy's guilty he should go to jail. the idea we don't have this going on, it's the classic steal a little bit they send you to jail. steal a lot, they make you king. that's the dynamic going on. >> the question is, do the, doesed media and we do ourselves collectively a disservice when we decide to elevate these criminals, whether bern e madoff on wall street, the rest of wall street is totally fine? >> why society needs it. a catharsis, we make ourselves feel we are dealing with the
problem. bernie madoff is a perfect example. completely the -- >> the -- >> the frosting on a really corrupt cake. >> and rod blagojevich is that next carrot? >> exactly. do you think, jonathan, this -- >> beginning with these cracks and creeks and these side shows, to get closer and closer to the actual conversation, which is dysfunction in the entire money politics system? >> i wish we were. unfortunately in the last couple years thanks to the supreme court we've been going in the opposite direction. where they're making it easier now for corporations toee essentially bribe congressmen. at this point the banks of the united states own the united states senate. according to illinois's own very honest senator richard durbin. he said, they own this chamber and he's right. so that's where the real -- the biggest crime is always -- >> right. it's like -- at the same time, you know, it's always darkest before the dawn, and maybe if you're in denial and don't want
to admit this is what's going on, maybe you have to be overwhelmed with a cascade of corruption to even acknowledge that that -- >> the answer is always darkest before the dawn. oftenç darkest before it goes completely black. >> i know. we'll take a break. lots of flus today. the panel stays. i'm staying on the optimist card. it's monday. also developing this afternoon, president obama get personally involved in the debt talks. talking to the chairman of the democratic caucus right after this. also coming up, an extra life for violent video games. striking down a california ban on selling violent, gory games to children. you want to sell porn? state says, no way. you want to sell murderous video games, go for it. it could be even porn in the video game. think there's no such thing as free lunch? think again. a restaurant chain, an actual restaurant chain, with a gamble
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busy news day away from our friend mr. blagojevich and the corrupt function of money in politic, although certainly this next story is symptomatic of the problems it created for us, the president now says he wants a debt deal. yes, all that debt, well, of course that's what you go to the government, an opportunity to get financing for all sorts of fun things. and the president says he wants a debt deal by july 4th. he'll take over the debt talk to get it done. throughout the day the president
meeting face-to-face with the senate's heavy hitters this morning including majority leader harry reid. in an hour, minority leader mish mcconnell's turn. ruling out plans for taxation. both sides singling one possible area of compromise in all of this pro wrestling is defense spending, without question is a significant and real issue that we all know needs to be addressed. it is also one of the years of shared sacrifice that senator bernie sanders just brought to the floor. that's a live picture of senator sanders this afternoon. he is offering all sorts of comments basically going to the extraction of the middle class on behalf of the wealthiest interests in this country. military and big business, who effectively have purchase control of the american government. meantime, the treasury is still waving that paper çtiger. ooh, boogally, boogally. the august 2nd debt limit, make
it up and tell you the world will end if you don't do what they want, unless you do something different, they change the date reeshgs structure and coming with a flu boogie man. the debt is real regardless of the moveability of a given date. also with us before we get to the panel, congressman john larson chairman of the democratic caucus, also serves on the ways and means committee. and senator larsen i know your view on this is largely in agreement with a lot of the debate we have on the show, a lot of structural problems in the country, getting off of these symptoms. you drive towards the tax code for solutions. can you give us any insight how the tax code is being debated in the actual room right now? >> well, i can't give you specifics with regard to that, dylan, of course. i wish i were in the rule. i know that clearly chris van holland and jim clyburn resting the house democrats have clearly put that market, and anyone
who's looked at this problem understands there clearly has to be cuts to deal with this deficit. clearly, there also has to be revenue. both things have to happen in a way that grows the economy, and is fair to the american public. so it's kind of a non-starter when you walk away from these discussions over not being willing to, a, deal with the medicare issue, which we believe should be dealt with separately from these discussions, and, b, that you will not put any revenues on the table and you're just going to walk away. so let us hope that the president is able to make headway with john boehner and also with harry reid and that people act responsibly and like adults, because this is a vitally important thingç to ou economy. >> interested in your thoughts on the conversation we were just having after the blagojevich trial, which is it's obvious
existence of monies influence on policy decisions 50 ways inside of health care, inside of defense, inside of the banking system, inside of the energy system. the list goes on and on, and the feeling in america that being either taxed to pay the subsidized more of these systems and/or austerity and punishing the least represented, nurses, teacher, et cetera, are basically our two options because politicians on both sides of the aisle are purchased by the politically powerful who -- are the ones most benefiting from the creation of this debt? >> clearly, as someone who is a sponsor along with dick durbin and campaign finance reform, i forget which one of the panelists -- it's completely legal, but is entirely corrosive. the system is corrosive because there isn't a person in congress
right now that probably isn't somewhere having to dial for dollars to perpetuate the monies and funding necessitated to run a campaign and while completely legal and above board, it's corrosive and unseemly. we need to get to a system, and that should be part of -- that's what the americans want. a fairness system as well. i think it was the great lyricist laura niro, if i can date myself who said, money, money, money, money. sometimes i feel like a pawn in my own world. we found the system but we lost the pearl. >> do you believe that you or any other serving politician in america, however good hearted or intelligent or well intended can actually restructure what needs to be restructured toç reduce this deficit without taking money out of the political process? >> i think we have to do that, and i think we have to make -- i
would love to see long term i completely agree. we've got to take money out of the process. the problem is we don't have that time or that luxury, and i dare say also we came very close last year over 160-plus signatures to get campaign finance reform to the floor, but we got derailed on the way with the supreme court decision, and unfortunatel that took up an awful lot of the time, but i applaud dick durbin, but dylan, you're right. we need to focus on this issue and a number of the larger issues you always emphasize. whether it's energy, the economy, whether it's our national defense or trade, these are the issues that require fundamental fairness, and as long as you're having a system where it's a money game like this, yes, that's true. it's not gawk oing to happen. two ways to go. either it's way mitch mcconnell says. everybody can donate anything
they want any time at all, report it instantly or go to reasonable way where we take, where people actually go back to their own district and raise money in a logical way that qualifies them for funding, and i would dare say limit the amount of time that you can campaign on and focus on the issues. focus back in your district. >> and the third way, we've chosen. you can secretly accumulate billions and publish using modern media without disclosed angership to process character assassination, manipulation and accumulation of the appropriate influence to manipulate the rights of credit, energy, food and everything else in order to become wealthy at the expense of all the people, which is option number three. go ahead. >> thank you very much, supreme court. disappointed with the white house for letting the republicans set the terms of the political debate right now? wouldn't it serve the democrats better if right now we talking
about jobs and how to get the economy growing again? rather than the debt ceiling, which is a political construct. it's not, i don't think, the top issue for most americans. i don't know about your constituents. >> certainly i agree. i don't think there's been a time i've been on the show we haven't been talking about jobs and the economy. clearly that remains the number one concern, in my district, and i'm sure in every other member. are we disappointed in the president? listen, i think the president has got his hands full on several fronts. we support this president, and he's got a very difficult and frustrating job. he's trying to steer a course in the middle, trying to get two sides to come together on this. yes, there is some frustration, clearly, in our caucus, but i commend the president. at the end of the day, this is a person you can always rely on to do the right thing. >> congressman, i appreciate your support of the president, but let me ask you, how is it
that it works that we can cut government and i agree we need to raise revenues and at an all-time low for taxes, but how is it that it works and we can cut government spending and grow the economy simultaneously? has that ever happened. >> not to my knowledge, and certainly obviously -- the president hasn't said that. i mean, the president and the vice president, quite frankly, all the reports we've seen, both chris van holland and jim clyburn have indicated that democrats remained firm. this is the way we have to go forward. you're going to have to make cuts, no question about that, but you'll alsoç have to raise revenue and both should be done in a manner that grows the economy, and moves the nation forward. that's the adult way to handle this, and this going to, taking your marbles and leaving the game is no way for the nation to negotiate or move forward. >> can't you make the cuts effective down the road when the
economy's recovered more and use what they call triggers so that if the cuts and the revenue increases are not made by 2013, then the cuts are automatic and the surcharges, as they call them, are automatic to make some progress on the deficit? use these triggers that were used in the 1990s. why is that not an area of compromise? i. think that's an area that's got to be on the table. i think it's an area clearly being discussed, but there is also with triggers, there's also the sense of who has the responsibility of that trigger in acting? and so i think the claritisy needed with regard to that. in the legislative branch you wouldn't want to see exclusive authority to the executive. you would want to make sure that your appropriate committees of cog in a sans had the abilities to impact any legislation going forward. having said that, i was a proponent of putting triggers in the health care bill, as it
would trigger the reductions that are needed in the several areas that are raising the costs of medicare, and have to deal with the major institutions. you can go down the list and, again, these things are all linked together. you start at the beginning of this saying, whether you're talking about health care and you're talking about the doctors, a trial bar, hospitals, insurance, pharmaceutical, medical devices, et cetera, everybody has a vested interest. but this is a time for the nation to pull together and focus onç where we can wring o savings on all these multiple levels. the example i just cited was in health care, but i think it was reuters who says something like 700 billion annually is gone, wasted in that area. no wonder we're headed towards 20% of gross domestic product going to health care, and we shouldn't be focused on taking away people's benefits. we should be focused on cutting
the excessive costs that exist in these specific areas. >> to that end, isn't a huge percentage of the south florida economy based on medicare fraud? >> according to "60 minutes," dylan, yes, and there's a lot that has been -- i, again, would commend the -- the increase in activity, but not enough, and more has to be done with respect to fraud in that area, but there's also, as you know, information technology, the duplication of effort. the inefficiencies that exist that must be wrung out of these systems. >> something to think about, congressman. are you going to reform medicare, you're going need a plan for an economic stimulus in south florida to go with that as a rider of some kind. thank you for the time. >> thank you, sir. >> all right. appreciate it. john larson out of connecticut. the panel stays. you seem somewhat dissatisfied with some of what -- >> look, i'm sorry. congressman larson, a hard working guy.
i like congressman larson. >> i like him, too. seems very nice. it's just we all know that the republicans need to raise the debt ceiling. their task masters on wall street told them that. a lot of theater. you can't cut the government and expect growth. it's just not going to happen. >> another distraction, whether e wiener, blagojevich, debt ceiling -- >> it's more than a distraction. right? i think the republicans really are out negotiating the democrats right now. i think mitch mcconnell is doing a fantastic job. >> of negotiating -- >> negotiating. >> and -- >> reframed the debate and specific negotiations managed to do the part they thought about, taxes, not even talking about then. we'll take a break. a frivolous lawsuit. a woman spilling hot coffee. mcdonald's, you probably heard references to it. she won. it turns out they may be missing a key lesson from that case. a new blog exposing the story
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we talk about a lot in relation to our outdated systems in this country and according to many the courts are prime example. for years the mcdonald's hot coffee suit has been criticized as the prime example of frivolous lawsuits. exploitation of hard working people by lazy people who use the court system to get money. a battle cry for tort reform. we can't live like this. but how much do we really know about stella's case against mcdonald's? >> they did a masterful job of taking this, this simple verdict and turning it upside down so people like mrs. leback are
trying to take economic advantage of the whole legal system. >> we may not know nearly what we think and our next guest is here to show us how big business used that $3 million settlement to institutionalize restricted access to civil justice and convince or create systems to limit further the rights of individuals from bullying judges to right crushes clauses embedded in all sorts of contracts, and joining us now, susan sallenoff, and producer of a film that tay beauxes this evening on hbo. the mega panel is with us as well. susan, i'll get things started and leave you in the hands of those around you, but ultimately what is the anecdote you lay out in this film that you believe really delivers the message that you're trying to send? >> first of all, everybody thinks they know the facts of that case. in fact, just now, sorry, you misrepresented them. she never got addses 3 million
settlements. she a $2.7 million verdict and reduced by the judge. settled for a smaller amount. most think she was driving the car. jane pauley suss stuting for tom brokaw on the nbc news news and misrepresented the facts saying she was driving. she was a passenger in a parked car. the coffee was being soldç through the drive-through. so hot that it caused third-degree burns with three to seven seconds. between 180 and 190 degrees. and 2 was served in those old-fashioned sire foem cups with the little flat plastic top, nobody could get those triangular things off? >> i hate those. >> didn't put the cream and sugar in it. put it in a bag. she was 79 years old, by the way. never brought a lawsuit in her life. she worked up until a week before this. so she didn't have any -- an old-fashioned car. no flat surfaces or cup holder. put the coffee cup between her
legs it try to get the little part open to put the cream and sugar in. when she took the top off, it collapsed because it melted. wearing cotton underwear nylons and a sweat suit. couldn't get out of it fast number and got third-degree burns in her private parts. she needed skin taken from her thighs and sewn inside. all she wanted, the difference medicaid paid and her medical benefits. they would, mcdonald's pay. they go through a week trial. unanimous verdict. the jury got so angry because mcdonald's was callous about the fact they all of this, these people who were burn and they didn't care, and they got, as i said, two days' worth of coffee sales was the verdict and then the judge reduced it to three times the medical bills because the contract with america was happening at that time and that
was what newt gingrich warranted punitive damages, three types. and it was reduced. they settled and she was stoubt a gag order. she never got to say her side and thenç the misrepresented facts were repeated over and over again. became the funny jokes on seinfeld and letterman and leno. a completely different perception of what happened. >> the point, the reason people argue against this, why these nairtives are built, so that corporations can keep americans to have access for any type of redress in these situations, right? >> absolutely. if we can distort the facts and convince the public the system is broken then they're willing to reform it. most think it's good. it means we're taking rights away from us and putting money into the hands of corporation. because if people are willing to vote away their rights or sign away their rights, the only people who benefit are large
kor corporations who are not held accountable when they make products that harm us, spill things into our waterways. that's what we are giving up as americans and most don't know what we're doing it until it affects us personally and the system is note there for us. >> is it true that in the states that have applied tort limit is, it hasn't done anything to hold down costs? republicans made everything obama was doing was off point. health care was out of control because of tort like the suits. the states limited them -- >> not only that, ins insurance rates never went down for doctors. insurance companies made more money. health care costs haven't gone down. in texas, 2003, the voters voted away their rights. health care costs have gone up in texas since 2003.
the myth is just, it doesn't go with the reality of the situation. >> just specificallyç on the medical malpractice point, isn't that an area where the u.s. judicial system has actually gone a little crazy? i mean, isn't it the case that mistakes are made as part of ordinary medical care and that if we have doctors, more concerned about malpractice suits, than they tr about how the health care system works you're never going to have a healthy system? >> that's another -- excuse me, another myth that's been p perpetua perpetuated. so much money in the public relations campaign to convince us there are too many frivolous watts. we have jackpot justice. all market tested terms. focus grouped. repeated over and over again. >> aren't insurers in favor of the current system? there's a rich corporate lobby in favor of our medical malpractice would work? >> the thing about medical malpractice, since 1997 and 200 the number of medical
malpractice claims decreased as opposed to increased. talk about caps on damages, you're putting a one size fits all limit, legislators who never heard the case are deciding this is the cap we'll put on. it would only affect those people who are most seriously injured. it only affects those people who after a trial, both sides, the jury determines that the defendant is negligent and give as high award, which then gets reduced by the cap. so by definition, those cases cannot be frivolous because a jury has already decided the defendant is negligent and that the plaintiff needs this amount of money. what happens is that if we don't allow these wrongdoughers to be held accountable, we as taxpayers are the ones who pay. one of the cases in the film. >> quickly. i'm sorry. i would -- love the idea of talking about medical malpractice reform, i can't add it to the rest of the show. but i'm excited for the movie. the movie is called "hot coffee"
debuts tonight atç 9:00 p.m. susan and sam, kristen, thank you all. we take a break. while we were all working today, a space hurdling asteroid went just pat your head. more on our close encounter after this. [ male announcer ] walls can talk. but it's our job to make them say something interesting. so how about this weekend we learn some new tricks of the trade... then break out our doing clothes and get rolling. let's use some paint that helps us get the job done
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imagine going to a restaurant, you grab all the grub that you want, head up to the register, and then just pay what you want to. it's not some crazy socialistic experiment. it is a new business model adopted by a restaurant chain, panera bread, and last year in missouri, panera opened a new kind of a store. the menu, gives a suggested price, but customers only pay what they want or what they can. the donation boxes at the museum instead of cash registers at the store. company executives are of the hope that people will give a little bit when they can afford it with the knowledge it's a nonprofit, that store, and that that money goes to feed others, and that they'll take a little more when times are tough. and it turns out that's precisely what's been happening. is this an idea that is good for america? let's bring in senior editor of "good" magazine. in brief what is this, how long
have they been doing it? >> this has be going on since june of 2010. and this is exactly what you described. a pay what you can model that panera bread supports with its 1,400 other for-profit locations. since june 2010, three not-for-profit organizations what you described. people come in, some donate more, some less, but they operate under that community aspect of sort of give what you can and leave what you -- and then take what you need but then sort of don't exploit. so far it's been a huge success. >> ron shake is the founder of panera bread and sits with us now. a pleasure to see you again. haven't seen you since the cnbc days g. to see you, dylan. >> the greatest risk, you will get cleaned out, you become a food pantry. >> the greatest risk, people perceive denny's grand slam breakfast. free food. the reality, people fundamentally do the right
thing. this was a test of humanity. >> a test of humanity we passed. >> we did. >> both in -- you passed, and the people you're working with passed and willing to take the risk and the customers passed. give us a sense what the heck you're thinking and why you think it's working? >> what we were thinking when we did this we wanted to create ways we could actually do things with our own arms and legs. we give $150 million in product and donation, but for us that wasn't enough. we were finding ways we could use our skills. who better than -- >> beyond financial capital? human capital? >> absolutely. our core, who better than us to open restaurants? heard a piece on "nightly news" about a group that opened a cafe on this model. we can do this. opened two restaurants a week. as we began to open it, people thought i was absolutely crazy. that it would be a run on the store. the reality is that if people understand it, if people trust it, if there's transparency,
they know it's nonprofit they do the right thing and these stores working. >> you told me during the commercial break you are collecting 80% of the inven tear you are collecting? >> 80% of the retail. 20% leave more. 60% leave suggested donation and 20% leave typically significantly less. we're generating more revenue than expenses, able to triple it. working with covenant house, taking at-risk kids, ripped off the streets and inventory, providing job skills. providing life skills, and we're turning these young people into taxpayers. we just graduated our first class. >> congratulations. >> thank you. >> and congratulations toç the as well. what you're doing taking what would be the profit in this business, but it's a nonprofit, and reinvesting the excess capital into the program with the children? >> what people misunderstand. this isn't a model for a profit-making business. this is a model for a cafe of
shared responsibility and a model as a gift to the community. that's what it is. >> philanthropy, basically? >> yes. interesting. the cafe. the community has to support it. if it didn't self-issustain it could disappear. >> cord, have you seen anything like this elsewhere? >> never on this kind of scale. i think that it's to panera's credit they're willing to take a massive success in the for-profit realm and devote a lot of energy to making things better in this way. according to mr. schaeffer what i've read, he plans on opening up a new one per quarter, which i would love to see. >> are there other businesses that aren't panera you think 0 do this? >> yeah. i think that the key is not the business. people ask me all the time. is this a business model? no. what makes it work, it's a nonprofit model. a model for essentially communities rising up and taking
care of each other. this isn't about a hand out. it's basically about a hand forward. >> and you basically provide the capital and environment and the community decides whether they're going to fund it and appropriate it or not? >> yes. we provide the cafe, the operating skill and people, but ultimately it can only work if enough are willing to sustain it. >> i love this story if for no other story a triumph of human nature and that is the most wonderful part of it. congratulations to you, ron, for continuing to try to push the way we relate and the way we relate to business and nonprofit business as well. >> right. most people are fundamentally good. >> thank you, exactly. cord, i'm sure you're fundamentally good, you wouldn't you weren't. >> could be a great cover. anyway, we'll take a break. coming up on "hardball," bachmann in, chris matthews taking a look. that's after this.
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time now for our "daily rant." here's kelly gough wlnchts i quited in my mom a terrific journalist and dear friend was about to reveal he's here in the u.s. illegally, her response, how can i help? adopt him or something? her compassion was not onlyç touching but telling. the conversation she and i ended up having made it clear to me supporter of illegal immigrants have done a lousy job of convincing people like my mon, progressives who care about civil rights why they should care about this. this ha not effectstively acknowledged one truth. all illegal immigrants are not
created equal. as my mother put it, she can think of at least ten american citizens off the top of her head she'd gladly trade for one jose. contributed more to this country than many of us ever will. in addition to sharing a pulitzer prize with colleagues his coverage of the aids crisis in washington inspired a film that may just end up saving lives. part of why i'm glad he's chosen to go public with his story it stands in stark contrast to the many stereotypes of illegal immigrants from those on both sides of the debate and the media. the "new york times" article entitled immigrants children sufferer profiled an illegal immigrant sluggaling to support one child and han two more in concession all of whom we taxpayers are supporteding through government prap program. if supporter of the dream act are looking for hinders efforts, they look no forward than this woman. she represents the anti-jose. i'll get angry e-mail. the reality e, as mong as
supporters are inunwilling what it takes to earn the privilege to remain in this progress we woen make progress. asking someone to learn english, make responsible choices not break the law once near any capacity and contribute to this country in a mariningful way as jose what does not make the person doing the asking a bigot. any progressive who does not fully embrace that message should look in the mirror and congratulate him or herself for being parts of the problem in resolving this issue asç to pa of the solution. but i'm hopeful thanks to jose's courage the conversation will finally begin to change a bit. because i know this much -- you can't afford to lose americans like hill. in fact, as i mom said, we could use more. >> very quickly, what do you consider the distinguishing characteristic of something like jose relative to his opposite? >> he values the privilege of being here and has said time and again from the moment he found out he was here illegally he